A family's year of 'buying black' - "The Ebony Experiment"

How the heck would the average person know who owns any of those companies? They would have to go out of their way to find out what the racial background is of those folks. And if they did that, and chose only to shop "white" then you could mount a case for their racism.

These folks are seeking out black folks at the exclusion of others. It is racist, like it or not.

Our optometrist happens to be East Indian. Today I'm picking up a prescription from the store where my Dad ordered new reading glasses. The owner happens to be black. My tailor is Arabic. One of my child's preschool teachers is Muslim. The mechanic to whom we go to get our car fixed is Serbian (and we're Croats!).

I couldn't care less about the skin colour of the people doing the job so long as they do their jobs well. I reward people based upon actual merit instead of what their skin colour might look like.

Try it sometime. It's nice not to be racist.

Dr. Uzo is the last Dr. I had before I left Alabama ( I have not needed to see one since I have been here). She was/is a tall, black African who became an American citizen and finished her medical education in the South. She was wonderful and I really liked her! As for lawyers, you really do not want to know what I think of most of them regardless of race, creed, religion, etc. I shop at a variety of places and I do not know what ethnicity the owner is at some of them. I do not ask. I am there because I want to buy what they have to offer for sale. I will not drive any distance to shop "White only", that is being terribly irresponsible about leaving unnecessary carbon footprints. In short, it is wasteful and in any religion, that is a sin. (or non religion...just plain stupid).

If businesses begin to take advantage of the population participating in the experiment by raising prices (minimally at a time) then other people not participating (or can no longer afford to) will go elsewhere for the better prices.

If word gets out that one race is buying from specific stores only and other stores are beginning to suffer then other races may rebel by no longer patronizing those same stores but giving their business to the stores that are suffering.

Now that this has 'gone public' how many people will cry racism and boycott the very same stores that are being mentioned in this article?

And now that this is getting media attention: How many racist, bigoted, hotheads are going to scream at the top of their lungs that this proves their point all along? (pick whatever point they are trying to make at any given time)

I understand the idea behind the experiment. I think it is commendable for someone to change their lifestyle to do something they feel is right (similar to buy local for one year). But to go public with what may very well be interpreted as a boycott of anything not of a specific race (owned/operated) is most likely going to raise the ire of those of different races.

Though I see the point you are trying to make, They need to make sure that they survive to show the young that they can do it to keep their hope alive, no matter what the odds are against you.

As for the American thing I put that in there to tell all them as well, it was for everyoneeeee, To look for labels Made in USA,

Right now the odds for anyone staying in business is not that great is what I was wanting to say, So don't try to put words into my typing. lol

And I've seen the special preference thing starting to go the other way as well.

If the article had been shopping in your community I dont think people would have taken so much offense, but it would be implying the samething.

How right your are! The problem with this experiment is not what they are doing it is the public perception of how and why they are doing it.

Every other culture has been doing it since their immigration to the United States, you have lil cuba, hati, chinatown, korea town etc in almost all major cities.

I frequent shops like the ones you mention not because of race but because I can not find the products anywhere else. These shops serve a niche market. They stock and sell products that are not carried in other types of stores. They also tend to be neighborhood corner groceries so they also get that shop local crowd which makes them successful.

The ethnic groups shop at those places because they have goods not available at other places. They would prefer NOT to have to go great distances

That is not why people support those stores or they would be out of business. They have a sense of community and patron each other out of it. These communities I am mentioning are pretty self contained in those areas. People who patron them from afar I agree with you do so partially because they want the product, but you best believe they like to support their community.

I will agree that most whites do not consider the color of the skin of the professional providing services to be important.

Actually many do, but dont have to conciously admit the factor race played in making the decision. There are factors that go into decision making that goes beyond the surface. Small expample, The decision to chose a doctor is largely on the perception of trust, we tend to trust people that look like us, but minorities tend to trust people that dont, more. Not saying this to be racist, its a replicated psychological fact.(one i think we are doing a good job of trying to move past) Part of pointing that out is not to say anything negative about whites, but to give awarness to the psychology behind the decision making. As the article was saying:

But thriving black businesses began dissolving in the mid-1960s, when African Americans focused on political power and civil rights and began patronizing white-owned businesses under the misconception that buying white signified blacks' upward socioeconomic mobility,But thriving black businesses began dissolving in the mid-1960s, when African Americans focused on political power and civil rights and began patronizing white-owned businesses under the misconception that buying white signified blacks' upward socioeconomic mobility,

But they will go to patron others. Many people leave their neighborhoods to go to places they percieve as better. This isnt a race limited phenomenon samething happens to neighborhood Mom and Pop stores when two exits away there is a Wal-mart.

Actually many do, but dont have to conciously admit the factor race played in making the decision. There are factors that go into decision making that goes beyond the surface. Small expample, The decision to chose a doctor is largely on the perception of trust, we tend to trust people that look like us, but minorities tend to trust people that dont, more. Not saying this to be racist, its a replicated psychological fact.(one i think we are doing a good job of trying to move past) Part of pointing that out is not to say anything negative about whites, but to give awarness to the psychology behind the decision making.

But they will go to patron others. Many people leave their neighborhoods to go to places they percieve as better.

What I am reading here is that a race of people will trust their own race above others - But that minority (using this word as example only) races patronize other races because they perceive them to be better? This contradicts itself in a way I am unable to fully comprehend.

C.C. let me explain

What I am reading here is that a race of people will trust their own race above others -

What I am refering to is the percievecd notion, especially strong in the black community, is that the goods and services offered outside of their own community are better than their own. I make that assertion based on a study done by Kenneth Clark in 1940 and replicated in 2005 by Kiri Davis that showed black children had negative self images while maintaining positive opinions of images dissimilar to themselves. The study was done using white and black dolls. Its a interesting google. What it translates into is what the author refered to with the comment I quoted in #6.3. During segragation blacks, and other minorities patroned minority opporated businesses out of necessity, but beneath that was implication that those buisness and services were not on par with service offered by the ones they were barred from (in many instances this was true, in others merely percieved).

But that minority (using this word as example only) races patronize other races because they perceive them to be better?

I didnt say that they patronize the business out of percieved superiority, but out of a sense of community. I state the groups listed above have a stronger sense of community and responsibility to support that community that goes beyond just wanting the goods from the store.

But they will go to patron others. Many people leave their neighborhoods to go to places they perceive as better.

I was refering to minorities [they] leaving their communities to go patron businesses outside their community on the perception that it is better.

Also to Dr. Know

I dont think many whites went you know I rather go to that black hospital or dentist. or Let me leave Beverly Hills to go shop in Oakland.

I am referring to the fact the desegregation didnt bring white patrons to black business, but did take them from black ones. Desegregation economically was not reciprocal.

Now personally, as I said earlier, I dont believe the notion of supporting your community is a race-limited notion. I can understand why "buy black" can seem offensive to non-blacks as it does imply don't buy white. That is why I think had the article been support your community it would have been more palatable, but saying the same thing.

The go 15 MILES out of the way JUST to shop at a store that is owned by an ethnic "equal". This is not about the survival of a little corner store. It is about expressing racial preference as the ONLY reason for shopping there.

I can understand the perception of of that being racists. I have already conceeded that. But I ask you a given the proven inherent perception of the inferiority of the business. (Please dont take it that I am saying you believe that but psychological studies have shown that there is a bias.) Given that bias how do we encourage people to support these businesses?

Again, I constantly read on the vine what blacks need to do to "get themselves together" but whenever efforts are made by the black community to up lift itself its called racist when those efforts dont apply to society ubiquitously.

Who is it that has these perceptions? If those perceptions are wrong so is the perception that other businesses are automatically better.

Not sure I follow.

Who is it that has these perceptions?

We all do

If those perceptions are wrong so is the perception that other businesses are automatically better.

Again, I am not sure what you are referring to here. I didnt say the people were supporting business with the perception one was better than another. In the case of this article they were doing so out of a sense of community. Now is that racist? Could be depending on your definition. I can see that. Also I am not asserting somebodies perception is right or wrong, its just how they feel; but it does influence behavior.

Sorry. You cannot say everyone has perceptions about which businesses are better based on the race of the owner.

I didnt say that (you did read the whole post?). I stated that they patroned black businesses out of their feeling they were supporting community not that they felt the business was better.

I am making a generalization, of course I dont think that applies to "everybody", Generalizations never do

I told you I wasnt sure what you meant by that question. I also said in two different post that I did not think the article was making assertions that the stores they were patroning was better than other stores. They felt they were supporting the black community. Now on whether or not this is racist, well: I told you I can understand feeling that way.

Do you refute the replicated results of Kenneth Clark's doll study? There is a bias against people of color, even among blacks, when it comes to the way they are percieved. Minorities have disparities in every measurable standard of quality of life. I hear time and time again people in those communities need to step up and help themselves. Now they are racist for doing it?

If we were talking about Poor Appalachian whites or Hispanics or any other specific group with a targeted solution, specific to that group all the other groups not benefiting from it would probably feel excluded too.

You were and have been making the assertions that the stores were better not I nor the article.

Where? I never said that nor said that you said that.

This sounds more like guilt for their having succeeded somewhat in life.

Or they could genuinely like to give back to where they come from. Or help others get to that point in life.

still didnt answer my questions?

Just because you fail to see the connection doesnt mean it doesnt exist. In my referencing the doll study and desegragation, I was trying to give psychological and historical context as to why many blacks dont support their communities in ways that other ethnic groups do.

Anyway the other part of my question was what do you suggest they do to help patron the black community that doesnt feel racist to you? I am not dancing around the issue I am asking your opinion

During segragation blacks, and other minorities patroned minority opporated businesses out of necessity, but beneath that was implication that those buisness and services were not on par with service offered by the ones they were barred from (in many instances this was true, in others merely percieved).

I didnt say that they patronize the business out of percieved superiority, but out of a sense of community. I state the groups listed above have a stronger sense of community and responsibility to support that community that goes beyond just wanting the goods from the store.

So to make themselves appear/feel equal they should return to the segregationist way of life and search out strangers with the same color skin? This just does not seem to be good business sense. This experiment is similar to what Hitler started the Holocaust with - Good Germans should only patronize German stores. That is a drastic comparison but if fits. If one ethnic race begins to segregate itself from the other ethnic races you will fall into the old racial divides that we are still trying to work beyond. Read the posts on this seed starting with #1. People who really don't care about their doctor, lawyer, teacher, shop owners skin color/religion are insulted and disturbed by this experiment. Instead of pulling people together this experiment is pushing people away who would have otherwise been supportive.

Desegregation happened in real time to me

For me it was my father's generation, but having lived through it I dont understand how you can argue that ending segregation didnt have economic reprocussions to the minority community.

There are all kinds of apologists for why the blacks do things. No one addressed the idea that there was never a sense of black community that exist in other groups to start with.

I didnt say anybody should apologize, nor do I feel anyone should take feel obligated to take special measures to correct these things. I only stated that to give context to the current state of many blacks. I also dont see how you can argue there wasnt a sense of community in blacks either comparatively speaking from the 50's & 60's during the civil rights movement that is really lacking in modern day times, though honestly I think that applies to America in a wider sense.

The other communities also have a greater sense of family and family ties

In that I think we are in agreement, but I think we disagree that it was never there, but again if that is true wouldnt what the experiment is trying to do be an effort to strengthen a sense of community within the black community. Community and neighborhood arent the same thing. Many Jewish people not only support their local communities but all intrest pertaining to Jews including supporting Isereal, not much talk of that being racist. I have found that in most cases suggesting it is is considered anti-semetic.

C.C:

So to make themselves appear/feel equal they should return to the segregationist way of life and search out strangers with the same color skin? This just does not seem to be good business sense.

Actually it would be good business sense if you considered to be supporting a community that you felt needed the business. It maybe less efficient for personal financess, true.

People who really don't care about their doctor, lawyer, teacher, shop owners skin color/religion are insulted and disturbed by this experiment. Instead of pulling people together this experiment is pushing people away who would have otherwise been supportive

This has really been a Devil's Advocate argument for me. I have already conceeded to you and Dr. Know that the experiment can come off racist. I get it. But I also get tired of hearing how the black community needs to take ownership of the problems specific to it, and stop blaming others. I agree, but that means collectively the black community has to address these issues. I am not suggesting segragation, and I am open for collective solutions from outside the community, but I do thing some of it is going to have to start from within starting with awarness of how these disparities came to be, and including some self-derminative and intra-collective things to improve them.

I can agree that I see all of America as America, but we are a heterogenous mixture working for a common good.

This has really been a Devil's Advocate argument for me. I have already conceeded to you and Dr. Know that the experiment can come off racist. I get it. But I also get tired of hearing how the black community needs to take ownership of the problems specific to it, and stop blaming others.

I appreciate the Devil Advocate argument - it does make people think. As for the Black community needs to take ownership of the problems - I would disagree. In my mind it is that society needs to take ownership. I live in a predominately 'white' area, we have a drug problem, unemployment, run down houses, and many other issues that need work. The community as a whole (society) needs to work on these issues. I feel it would be a very sad day if my community started saying that the whites will help whites and all others can help themselves. It is my community, everyone needs to work together. As a society we have not yet grown beyond much of the racial divides of the past but we are working on it. If people start to create divisions based on 'helping' others of their race get ahead I believe it will only reverse the good already done and open new avenues of separation that are going to take even longer to breach.

I agree with the sentiment that we need to look at problems facing different facets and parts of America as American societal problems. It would be nice to live in a country where these things are thought of as our problems and not your problems. I think socieoeconomics has gotten to the point where that really is more of a truer statement then people realize. I grew up in black 'hoods' but there were always a few whites and latinos here and there who were going through the samethings I were. They felt isolated, where I was they were the minorities. I do think that issues of poverty, education and health are American societal problems. I do however think because of the heterogenicty of our population they will take different approaches to solve them. What is needed in Marcy Projects is going to be different the Appalachian regions.

I have to agree with the difference in needs. Appalachian communities tend to judge people more on work ethic and willingness to be part of the community then more urban areas. Many family and friends in urban neighborhoods do not have any sense of community (some have never talked to their neighbors). In many rural areas if someone is willing to work they will never go hungry, even if they don't have two pennies to rub together. In urban areas you may pay someone to do work for you but you don't get involved in the personal life (such as: does the family has enough to eat that day) of the individual. But even in Appalachia if a family/individual separates themselves based on some difference that others perceive to be wrong they will be segregated from the community and treated as an 'outsider' .

DK,

You dont know what other things those people do outside of this experiement. And anyway if they arent fishermen they cant teach people to fish. That is should they holding business seminars in the neighborhood?

This couple has adopted the usual attitude of liberal politicians. Do not really get involved. Spend a little money and let the community flounder

I dont know that conservatives get any more involved. Not a liberal v conservative thing

Didnt say I didnt get the analogy, Just didnt find it analogous. :P

Did like your word play, clever flip there with patron ->patronizing

Your avoidance of my explanation of how the analogy applies says mulititudes.

So does the fact that I dont agree with you conveys to you that I dont understand.

You know that this is cheap grandstanding intended to assuage their guilt instead of any reall effort to uplift the "black community".

No, I dont. The truth is neither do you. That is your assumption. It may or may not be true, neither of us can claim to know. Some might consider economic investment a way of being uplifting. You assume it is not true support or aversion to "getting dirty", you may be right you may be wrong, but its still just how you see it. Your assumptions say multitudes.

In the height of segregation "whites" would conduct business in "black" establishments.

That was the exception not the rule. Many whites were and are supportive of civil rights, I didnt think we were debating that. However, I dont think it can be said the economic investment post segregation was equally recipical. Not to point fingers, the reasons are multifactorial, but that doesnt change facts.

The Foundation will collect data from this campaign to create a new body of knowledge about the power of self-help economics for revitalizing underserved communities. The purpose of the research, the national campaign, and the resultant study is to measure the economic impact of self-help economics and increased entrepreneurship in economically deprived communities.

Is this the teaching them how to fish you were refering to?

These people are not associated with that foundation

LMAO!

They are the spokes people for the foundation! Its the foundation's experiment. go to http:v//www.ebonyexperiment.com/

Thanks for proving my point.

I dont know where we are going to end on this one Doc K.

I agree that the experiment could have be voiced to be more inclusive and that it can come off feeling exclusionary even racist. I disagree the motives behind it are racist based on the definition of the term in my post below.

I disagree the experiments only purpose is to buy black based on my post 6.30 part of the foundation is geared to providing education on creating maintain and supporting enterprise among blacks.

I think we can agree to disagree. I concede to you the parts of your argument that I agreed with. And I dont see us making anymore head way on the parts we dont. I havent seen any attempt by you to see anything different from your initial premise that this is pure racism. So I guess our debate is going to get circular.

I have enjoyed it though.

On the first level I see from this El Lay Times story is some El Lay folks finding their fifteen minutes of glory. Peace out to you babies. On a second level I see a cultural awareness.

Are Yemenis Africans?

Here's my point. You need to recognize who are the controllers of all Americans. It has always been a single group of people: White people. They set the standards and the expectation is that all are to follow if you want to be American. In a country of such diversity, a single group has set the agenda from the start and again, all the other cultures are "expected" to simple fall in line.

Obama's white?

Furthermore, when you're referring to "whites" exactly to whom are you referring to? Italians? The Irish? The Poles? Because when these groups of "whites" immigrated to the USA, they experienced terrible discrimination and oppression... at the hands of other "white" folks. Perhaps you should be making some distinctions when you're talking about which groups of people had majority status instead of making blanket characterisations based upon the superficiality of skin colour.

Now you may say so what, but if you are White and saying so what, well that is different from being of another culture and saying it. In fairness, you must consider that your thinking may bebased on being content in your role of superiority. You control the outcome of all others and all others are expected to meet your criteria. It is not spoken, but it is understood. That silent understanding makes a difference psychologically.

I'm "white." But I'm Croatian. My parents immigrated here some forty years ago. We experienced a lot of discrimination against us because our family is Slavic in the early years. Yet - based again on the superficiality of skin colour alone - you would characterise me and others like me as somehow having shared in some sort of cultural superiority and oppression of others.

Do you have the right to characterise all people with the same skin colour like you have?

Fun factoid: the Croatian Republic of Dubrovnik was the first nation in the world to outlaw slavery, on the 27th of January, 1416.

So you see why I personally, as a Croatian, take such offense at being lumped in as responsible for the oppression (especially slavery!) of minorities along with other people who merely look like me.

Thanks for not prejudging people in the future based on skin colour alone.

To add to your statement alkimja...I also and white. Although my family has been in America for many generations. Since coming to Southern California in 2006 I have been discriminated against and called racist just because of my Southern accent. Care to guess who discriminated against me and called me racist? It wasn't the Asians here in Southern California nor the Caucasians. So whenever my guy and I go any where, I try to say as little as possible.

All of you missed the bigger picture and I am not surprised. For you my statement was about YOU when it was intentionally broad. I will not get into the immaturity of much of the comments but I do hope you will evolve to a point that you can comprehend that we all have prejudices and again, until we do not care who buys what from whom or take issue that anyone prefers a particular group, the problem will continue. It should not matter if you are black, white, green or purple. If your motive is not about the color and all about connections, then you are on the path of overcoming you own prejudices.

Consider this, if my description did not include you life, why do you sound angry? If you know it does not apply to you, there is nothing to be angry about or at least there should not be. Yet, you felt a need to sound off as if my comment was about you. I am not offended because I understand we all communicate from wherever we are at a moment. Today, I recognize you all are responding from where you are and not where I am. Some will get what I am saying and others will not. Try to understand we are all growing and it will take time before we are willing to step outside ourselves to understand others as it is not an easy task.

If what I said does not apply to you, then do yourself the favor of not taking it personally. If your White family was not a part of the problem, it does not dismiss others who were. If you are not the White people that I spoke about, it does not change the history does it? Please try to grow. No matter when other Whites arrived, the controllers were still Whites! Yes, Obamais White just as much as he is Black. I would think you are also aware just how long he has been in office, right? I would also hope you know that the Presidency, though a powerful role, has checks and balances. He does not have the same power and control as even his predecessor as the media and you and I will pound him daily about every decision he makes.

The power and control, I speak about is not from any one position, but maybe I am over your heads.

Dr Know, you said it so much better than I would have! :)

Dr Know indeed said it very well.

All of you missed the bigger picture and I am not surprised.

The bigger picture being that anyone whose skin colour you apparently blame for the woes of the world, who doesn't immediately accept that ridiculous burden, you will attempt to further demean and dehumanise.

Long walk. Short pier. Go.

Well as all others voted your voice ss better than their own, I will say to you, Dr. Know, you are welcome. You all seem to want this to be about your skin and not about the fact that power and control has a connection to a skin. Those in power/control make the rules that all others follow.

When you read Forbes or any other informational source, what skin color are the people? With the exception of the past 51 days, what skin color served as President? What group has the controlling skin in the House and Senate? The POWER and CONTROL belongs to white people.

Let me ask you this, would you have an issue with any/all groups deciding that they are going to support any/all specific groups? Or is your outrage and call of racism because they are Black saying they are supporting other Blacks? Do you not see that it should not matter? A group who happens to be Black is helping a group who happens to be Black. Should others say we should not support a group that happens to be all white? Despite the article's title, we need to see past it and address the issue of a group deciding to support another group and accept it as simply that. If you add the color proponent, then it is the person adding it that is making it a racial statement and not the people involved.

HERE'S THE BIGGER PICTURE:

As I said before, when you get to the point that your thoughts about ANY issue is not based on skin, NO MATTER WHAT COLOR, then you know you are addressing the topic based on real issues. Until then, you are fighting the beast within my friends. You can take it out on me as much as you like, but you are really fighting your own inner issues. Take me seriously or not really does not matter. You will either choose to consider all thoughts or you will continue to limit your thinking to what fits your life. BTW, I really was not trying to be condescending, but if you do not want to think past yourself, I can see how you would receiveme that way. Please receive me in friendship of offering you a different perspective. There is no need to be ugly if you don't desire it. :-)

alkimija-

Perhaps if you could tell me the non-white folks who hold the power of this country, I could began to appreciate your comments and will be more than happy to retract my statement.

Long walk. Short pier. Go.

So your Croatian White views of opposing opinions is to imply they should die? That is what you bring to the conversation as part of your Croation views of others who disagree with you, yet I am to believe a person who would imply threats to my life because my views differ could never be prejudice?

As I said before, if you know your heritage does not applyto what I was saying, it stand to reason (for reasonable people) that you should not be defensive. Yet, you are defensive and with such negative and nasty tones. I know this time I risk sounding condescending again, but I don't know how to say this any other way, alkimija, but you need to figure out why you feel a need to be so mean when the accusation is not about you, then seek help. ;-)

"If his popularity falls will that heritage be used against him?"

Yes. It happened to President Bush le fil. Why wouldn't it happen to President Obama?

DK-

Are you really bothering to read what I write? Or do you just skim it to find what you want to use as a slam? Do you really want to discuss this or just proclaim this Black couple racist and be done? Because if that is all you want, then you have already done that.

Perhaps this is my fault. I thought the idea was to discuss various perspectives and learn from them. Instead, I am told I am condescending, to jump from piers and I am stuck in the information past. I have also noticed how the only areas that are being commented here, removes the fact that the basics of my statement is not being refuted, but instead avoided. None of you are saying White people do not control and hold the power for this country. Yet, you seem angry that I say it. I don't understand and why. Only you can answer that.

The country is ran by a single color. That is a fact. My statements are not about blame, they are simply statements about who is placed where in our society and how where you are controls who makes the rules. The idea of blame is what has been thrown into the conversation ( I guess) to justify arguing that White people are not to be told they have the control and power of others. No matter what you say here, Whites do have the control and the power and they do use it to their will. That is not an attack on posters who are White. It is simply stating that White folks are in power. Sure it can be to the beneficial to know you have an advantage as it is fair to also say that all Whites do not make decisions based upon that. Both are true though you seem to feel they can not co-exist! Nevertheless, nothing you have said changes that White skin people maintain power and control.

Your second paragraph is not worthy a response from me.

I do consider the President to be both Black and White. Why do you keep trying to turn this into insults instead of staying with the issues? Is that your only range on the topic? Black people should not support other Blacks or they are racists? The rest of your comment was not worthy a response from me. I just don't want to be petty in the conversation. If you feel the need to continue that path, you will have to do so alone.

When we get to a point that skin is not the issue, then we will finally be united beyond skin. Until then....

Perhaps this is a matter of communication skills. You see, I find a difference between saying "White" and placing a descriptive in from of the word. If I was speaking of all Whites, I would have said all Whites. I also took it for granted that when I made comments like:

That is not an attack on posters who are White.

If you know it does not apply to you, there is nothing to be angry about or at least there should not be.

If what I said does not apply to you, then do yourself the favor of not taking it personally.

If your White family was not a part of the problem, it does not dismiss others who were.

If you are not the White people that I spoke about, it does not change the history does it?

Yes, Obama is White just as much as he is Black.

that you would know there was a distinction being made. I clarified that I was making a very clear differentiation of the levels within the White race. Did you read these differently than that? It is important that I understand where you got the impression that I was referring to ALL Whites. Please show me where I made that statement because I don't think I did. You and others tried to make it my statement, but I never said that - that came from you all as a response to what I said.

My statement was and remains about who has power and control. I will continue to say this until it sinks in. No matter how you or any one else wants to make my statement about White bashing, I will repeat it is about who has Power and Control and the power and control belongs to date to a single color: Whites! Now if you still don't get it, you will have to explain what confuses you.

Perhaps if you could tell me the non-white folks who hold the power of this country, I could began to appreciate your comments and will be more than happy to retract my statement.

Why is that burden upon me? Is your ability to use Google somehow disabled? It is your position, remember, that people who aren't of European descent don't have any power whatsoever in the USA. So go ahead and prove it.

So your Croatian White views of opposing opinions is to imply they should die?

What kind of ridiculous racist remark is that?

That is what you bring to the conversation as part of your Croation views of others who disagree with you, yet I am to believe a person who would imply threats to my life because my views differ could never be prejudice?

How the Hell did I threaten your life? If someone tells you to go jump in the lake, or take a long walk off a short pier, they're not threatening you. Unless, of course, you cannot resist such sarcastic suggestions and you also happen to be soluble in water. Stop being a drama queen just because your position is indefensible.

As I said before, if you know your heritage does not applyto what I was saying, it stand to reason (for reasonable people) that you should not be defensive. Yet, you are defensive and with such negative and nasty tones. I know this time I risk sounding condescending again, but I don't know how to say this any other way, alkimija, but you need to figure out why you feel a need to be so mean when the accusation is not about you, then seek help. ;-)

Look - if you say that "whites" are [negative statement], then anyone who is "white" who feels it's an unfair comment is going to respond. Yes, I'm going to defend myself - and a large majority of people whom I know to be innocent of your offensively racist comments - against your ridiculous accusations.

If you actually feel justified in making blanket statements about other people based solely upon their skin colour, it is you who needs help, and desperately so.

alkimija-

If Whites like you believe that any/all comments that say the word "White" is a negative declaration on all "Whites", no matter their roots, should we believe that there are Blacks who when they hear comments about any "Black" believes it is addressed to all "Black" groups. Is that where some of us are? That is if the word "White" or "Black" is used, whatever is said applies to all? May God help us all if some of us are still that small-minded.

alkimija, You can choose to think I was speaking to every single White person on the planet or you can choose to believe that I was talking about a segment of Whites. You can decide that group of Whites I spoke about included you or that it excluded you. It is that choice that determines where you are in your growth. You can continue to make statements that are rude (which I views as a substitute for subject substance) or you can decide to discuss the article with a person who does not agree with you but welcomes a sincere debate on the issues. The choice is yours. All that I hear from you comes across as a personal attack on my rights to my views instead of information that counters my statements. Frankly, if this is any indication of what happens to Blacks, I can see why they are frustrated and feel a need to support one another exclusively.

I don't want to be told to walk off a short pier seriously or sarcastically. I would like to discuss this issue with those who do not find it a burden to be asked to explain why I am wrong to say White folks run the US. Yes, I do find you nasty, mean and people who are that way are people who I think need to seek help. I will not be responding further to you because I prefer conversations on the subject and not whatever this ugly garbage that you seem to want to make the dialogue. If you do not understand my statement beyond these kinds of responses, obviously, we are at two different places in life. AS I see it, the article has found support by responses like yours. What I think is the difference between folks like you and folks like me is that you seem angry that Blacks could possibly believe they must go the extra mile to support one another while I find it sad that they feel that way. Again, after reading responses here, to include yours, I see no reason to think they do not have a legitimate case.

JEN, if I were to seriously argue that "blacks are bad" then that statement is a generalisation that (very unfairly) applies to all blacks. And of course all blacks would have every right to be offended by that argument and have justification to respond and defend themselves and other blacks against such a ridiculous accusation.

You really don't understand what you're doing when you make such blanket statements, do you?

The rest of your post is self-serving gibberish. If you don't want to talk to me again, fine, good riddance.

Though America is a diverse place, we still suffer from wanting to think we understand a position that we can not identify with because we have not lived it. This country has been established by a group of White people who still determine what is what. When minorities attempt to challenge that, it is sometimes interpreted in a variety of negative ways and responded to in kind. These include mutual attacks, criticisms, ignorance, condescending remarks/actions, just to name a few. There are rules that apply differently based upon who you are in this country and those who speak to it will be treated with disdain.

The same way Whites have had jobs taken from them because of some unfair quotas, Blacks have had job opportunities or equal pay because of skin. Both situations are wrong, but just as real. I have a friend who teaches in a school with about 70 teachers. One is Black and all others White. However the entire cooking and maintenance staff are Black. She says all the students see it as Blacks are not smart enough to be teachers. Non spoken message received. She also says they are told to make sure grade reflect adequate progress for Black students but awards and higher placement classes are reserved for White students. That one Black teacher is certified to be a Principal but though the position has been opened twice, it has been filled with less qualified White teachers. Teachers understand their jobs are on the line with their award choices. When I attended college, a Black student who made better grade the entire year than I did received a B while I got an A. She told me she was not surprised as this was typical! She knew she had been cheated and accepted it as a part of her life.

We can stick our heads in the sand. We can get angry because we want to play on words, but the truth is, there are double standards and some of them we will never see or understand because we can't. What we can do is to instead of looking for the conflict, look for the connections. If this family believe they can be of help to another Black family by supporting them, I see it no differently than a White family saying I am going to support the local store even though it is owned by Whites. Instead of looking at this as a racist issue, I choose to see it as keeping businesses open. We have the power to make it an issue or look for a reason not to make it an issue. It is an individual choice, but in making that choice, it says more about you than where these people shop, in my opinion.

...because it is about perception.

Do you want an answer to the question or someone to agree with you?

If it were Asian people conducting oh say, an "Amber Experiment", or Hispanics conducting an "Umber Experiment", or Caucasians conducting an "Ivory" experiment, all these groups would be called RACISTS!

I wouldnt call them that at all. My explanination is going to be verbose, sorry.

From Ebon Experiment website: www.ebonyexperiment.com

The Ebony Experiment Foundation.s focus is research and education concerning economic empowerment in underserved communities. The Foundation's research is based on the Andersons' pledge and experiences finding and supporting Black businesses, professionals and products created by Black manufacturers, as the Black community is a historically underserved community.

The Foundation will also study the impacts of a year-long national economic development campaign aimed at promoting and stimulating enhanced entrepreneurship and self-help economics in the underserved Black community

If any of the groups above were aiming to fix a disparity specific to that group in a similar manner. I would be supportive. Also Dr. Know I think this is the teaching people to fish thing you were refering to earlier.

Racism

1.

a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

2.
a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.

3.
hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

The Anderson's are not asserting that black business are superior to any others, in fact they saying they are in worse shape, historically and currently, than others. I think the same is true for other ethnic groups and I would support them in the same way. Personally I think it would have been more inclusive to invite all groups to take the time to support them but they chose to focus on self-awarness first.

Thank-you for finally posting the definition to racism...the misuse of the word irks me. Their shopping behavior is a preference and so what...the bigger question for me is why, why is "Dr Know" concerned...what's it to you?

And yet any time a "white" person supports any thing that is considered a "white" thing by persons of color, we are called racists. So why is it different for persons of color? Why the double standard? The basic question still has not been answered!

Persons of color do not consider themselves racists if they support their own kind but are the first to yell out "RACIST" loud and clear for the entire world to hear when whites support whites. I was even judged as being racist just because of my Southern accent and the people know nothing about my views on anything! So again, why am I racists and they aren't?

"...and yet any time a "white" person supports any thing that is considered a "white" thing by persons of color, we are called racists."

That is simply wrong.You can have all the mayonnaise, lutefisk and prune danish you want and nobody will call you racist. They may say "eeew" and acknowledge that White people have a culture but few would call you a racist.

And yet any time a "white" person supports any thing that is considered a "white" thing by persons of color, we are called racists

I understand the frustation that must come with feeling that all black consider everything whites do racist, some do. I dont think that is the sentiment of most blacks. Like I dont think it is the sentiment of most whites that blacks are responisble for most of the ills, some do.

Persons of color do not consider themselves racists if they support their own kind but are the first to yell out "RACIST" loud and clear for the entire world to hear when whites support whites.

When Catholic Irish Americans were the target of discriminations, the efforts they took to help their community: Starting and supporting Irish businesses, voting collectively for only Irishmen to get representation in their government. Were those racist actions? They supported their own institutions and business that how we got Notre Dame. By catholics supporting catholics. Was that bigotry?

People of all races and creeds do things to support "their kind" ( I live down the street from a Jewish Community center) that doesnt mean they dont do things to support others.

When Japanesee Americans got reperations from being in internment camps was the fact that all americans didnt get a check mean the government was racist?

I was even judged as being racist just because of my Southern accent and the people know nothing about my views on anything! So again, why am I racists and they aren't?

Yes that makes them racist, whites are not the only ones capable of racism. I have had to catch my own thoughts from leaning towards overgeneralizations of people based on race and stereotypes. Honestly I think we all have. Its acknowledging it and moving past it that will help us overcome it.

I could regale you with my own tales of racism, being called @!$%#. Having my white classmates tell me I cant join their club . But that wouldnt change how you felt in your experience. But instead of trying to one up each other on the who's more racist scale. Lets agree that it sucks to have to have those experiences. And when people say they are feeling like they are experiencing it we should ask why, not tell them why they shouldn't feel it.

Not even close to funny, Spooky Boyfriend.

And Sim2Luv is right. I can't publicly express much pride in my heritage without some idiot automatically associating me with fascism. The pride I have in what makes me who I am has nothing to do with hating or demeaning anyone else. It's sad that other people don't understand that.

I could regale you with my own tales of racism, being called @!$%#. Having my white classmates tell me I cant join their club .

I heard such said to some of my friends and it sickened me. But have you ever consistently scored highest on an employment test only to be told you couldn't have the job because they had a "quota" to fill? I have. I have been told to not say anything about some wrong things that were going on when I worked in a place where I was the only "white" in the group. There are many other incidents like this before I came to California. Imagine my shock and dismay when I found this sort of thing out here in this "Many Colored Land". It just saddens me to see and hear people of this nation act as if we are a nation of many flags.

Theodore Roosevelt once said: "We have room but for one flag, the American flag." My generation was the one that was supposed to see this come to fruition. But instead, it seems things have gotten worse. Everyone wants to be "something"- American instead of just American. I feel that until we can all get past being "something"-American and unite under one flag (the American Flag!), there will always be prejudice and racism.

...so you are Irish Catholic; are you being ironic now? Have you heard of picking oranges in Syria? Guess not...

What is your point? Is it that prejudice doesn't exist? Is it that you are free of prejudice and everybody should be too? Come on, let's jump around...

Have you played hockey? In hockey, there is a common tactic called a back pass.

Where are you at that you are so sure of which direction is forward?

When did the Japanese-Americans GET reparations?

In 1988, the U.S. Congress passed legislation which awarded formal payments of $20,000 each to the surviving internees�60,000 in all. This same year, formal apologies were also issued by the government of Canada to Japanese Canadian survivors, who were each repaid the sum of $21,000 Canadian dollars.

But really not a point I was trying to harp on. I am not endorsing that happen now.

I dont call myself African-American, personally, I dont consider myself African. Obama is more African-American then me. But if I were why would that bother you? Why should someone have to deny their heritage to be all American? Why does acknowledging that part mean they feel any less about the American part?

There is a Black Medical Association but no White Medical Association

The AMA didnt Allow blacks into the society well into the 50's. The National Medical Association, not Black medical association, focus on disparities in healthcare field as related to blacks. They help conduct the studies in health disparities that the AMA only started paying attention to in the last two decades. but they are the racist organization?

But have you ever consistently scored highest on an employment test only to be told you couldn't have the job because they had a "quota" to fill?

I am sorry that happened to you, I told you I didnt want to get into a one upping match on racism.

I have been told to not say anything about some wrong things that were going on when I worked in a place where I was the only "white" in the group.

Sounds like it was uncomfortable being the minoritiy in the group?

I guess I'll start calling myself a Euro-American and see if I can get a Euro-American History month and special holiday started and call for a Miss Euro-American pageant where only Euro-Americans can compete, and while I am at it, how about starting a Euro-American only college fund. And, oh...what about special reparations for those of us of Irish decent who were for all practical purposes enslaved when they came here, and what about all the other indentured servants? Don't their great-great-great-etc grand children deserve reparations also?

My point is, where does it end? Where does everyone call it balanced and even?

You don't have to call yourself Euro anything. Who you are is already completely accepted here. However, I think that the issue in part is that the whole of other's heritage is not accepted. When we read our public school's history books, much of the history of Black contributions are left out. The largets part is to let them know they were slaves, but not much mention is given to their contributions/innovations.

4real-

As I look over these posts, I see the same three posters repeatedly. This is good news. It shows that nobody finds this topic worthy of calling this family racists in general after reading the article. It speaks volumes to the vine posters of all colors that this is not a significant topic/conversation. America is changing for the better!

fail to see how this is support "heritage". Supporting African religions - heritage

I was refering to Sim's comment about dropping the ____-American, not necessarily this artilce

Miss Euro-American pageant where only Euro-Americans can compete, and while I am at it, how about starting a Euro-American only college fund. And, oh...what about special reparations for those of us of Irish

Black history month, the pagent and the college funds, were started to address specific disparities that are specific to that population. If Euro-Americans faced those same disparities at the same staggering numbers I would be all for The United Euro College Fund. I think you are upset because you feel it is exlusionary to whites. I understand, but those disparities dont exist across the board in those categories. When minorities are represented proportionally to their percentage of the population in measurable standard of quality of life than I will say ok these measures and watch groups arent need til then they are. The fact that special attention are paid to these groups trying to improve these disparities that dont apply to the majority population is not racist to the group not getting the attention, its trying to bring them up to the same level. It kinda reminds me of a kid with two lollipops in his hands who cries when you give the empty handed kid one.

And again I know they're people of all races with poor healthcare, poor education, high crime rate etc. But they do affect certain minorities at amazingly higher rates than others and the majority. Trying to understand why behind those difference does not mitigate those who share the common problems it just acknowledges for some reason it affects one group more and tries to correct that discrepency. Not racist, unless the reason those discrepencies/ exist are.

Jen-357892: As I look over these posts, I see the same three posters repeatedly.

You should add two to that number.

That's really the impression I got when I read it. It doesn't seem like these stores are in their own communities or that they are returning to their former neighborhoods to patronize these businesses. What poor, underserved neighborhood have you been to recently with stores dedicated to vitamins or that even had health food stores? Around here our poorer neighborhoods can't even get an apple or banana if they wanted to. They would absolutely need to drive out of the community to get that.

Plenty of neighbor"hoods" in Chicago have health food stores, so your sweeping statement is patently false as most sweeping statements are.

Search - A Natural Harvest , Soul Vegetarian, Bonnie Asante for just a few.