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DR KNOW
At any given moment we are all doing the best we can.
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Member Since: 10/2007Last Seen: 11/06/2009
Member Since: 10/2007Last Seen: 11/06/2009
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Celebrations have been held at the Winter Solstice since the beginning of man. Early man noticed that the day was losing to the night steadily. They hoped that they could do something to bring back the light. Bonfires were built and rituals were done to help the light win the battle over darkness. This theme continues to this day in many places.
The feast of the Son of Isis was a celebration in Early Babylon. Part of the reason for eating so much was twofold. Some of the stored food was about to spoil. They also would gauge how much of the livestock they would need to replenish the herds the next year. Any extra animals would be eating food that could be used elsewhere. The giving of gifts was popular since they had been doing handicrafts to pass the time.
The Romans had the Saturnalia. Saturn was the God of Agriculture. A good time to start winning his favor. People known as "Mummers" would don costumes and go from house to house to entertain. This is at least the precursor to caroling.
Following this Mithras became very popular. He was referred to as the 'Unconquerable Sun'. His birthday was at the Winter Solstice. He was born from a hollowed hole in a rock. The first "Christian" Emperor, Constantine, was a devout Mithraic prior to converting. These two things are important. If you have noticed a close similarity in the birth story, there are other influences from Mithraic practices.
The exact day that Jesus Christ was born is unknown. The calendars used to denote time as AD (Anno Domini – year of the Lord) and BC (before Christ). Close inspection revealed an error in the assumed date of about 7 years. This is why time is called CE (Common Era) and BCE (Before Common Era). The bible says that there were new born lambs in the field. Biology proves that he could not have been born in December. Ewes stop ovulating at the Fall Equinox (September 22). Gestation is 42 days. This places the date in November at the latest. Most historians believe that the birth occurred in September at the latest. Most favored is about six months after the Jewish Passover.
Pope Julius I declared that Christ's birth would be celebrated on December 25 in 350 CE. He freely admitted his purpose was to make it as easy as possible for the pagan Romans to convert to Christianity. He also changed the day of worship to SUNday to appease the Mithraic Constantine for similar reasons. This practice was expanded by the Catholic Church to usurp sacred worship places, incorporate local gods and goddesses as "saints" so that the old generation could continue to worship in the old fashion while the new generation would not remember them.
Evergreen trees used to be decorated in nature to encourage the return of the Spring. They started to be taken indoors when an early monk considered them to be an "abomination" and cut them down. The druid believed trees to be sacred. They would decorate them during their rituals. The first record of a decorated evergreen appearing in a Christian Christmas celebration was in 1521. This was the Alsace region of Germany, the source of the song "O Tannenbaum (O Christmas Tree ...)". A prominent Lutheran minister of the day cried blasphemy: "Better that they should look to the true tree of life, Christ." The first "Christ Mass" occurred in Germany. Both the Lutherans and the Catholics claim to be the first to do so.
The Catholic Church freely admits that they changed the dates. They claim they have that right. There are some Protestant groups that do not celebrate Christmas for that reason and the knowledge that the birth did not occur in December. There is also another Christmas... More on that in the 12 Days of Christmas
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{"commentId":4236757,"authorDomain":"DrKnow"}
This is a VERY brief history of Winter Solstice Celebrations. Christmas is a continuation of them made palatable by edicts of a Pope.
{"commentId":4236757,"threadId":"430771","contentId":"2162418","authorDomain":"DrKnow"}
- 7 votes
#1 - Sat Nov 29, 2008 11:54 PM EST{"commentId":4247219,"authorDomain":"DharmaGirl"}
There is much to be said for concise, Dr Know :) That is a lot of information in a very compact form.
Thank you for a lovely column. I've always said I don't mind the Christians stealing our holy days (especially where they model their mythology on ours), I just wish they could be honest about it, and give credit where it is due. I didn't realize they had initially done so.
{"commentId":4247219,"threadId":"430771","contentId":"2162418","authorDomain":"DharmaGirl"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":4236789,"authorDomain":"hippiechick"}
Dr. Know.. interesting and compelling brief history. Makes one go "hmmmmm"?
{"commentId":4236789,"threadId":"430771","contentId":"2162418","authorDomain":"hippiechick"}
- 2 votes
#2 - Sat Nov 29, 2008 11:59 PM EST{"commentId":4236820,"authorDomain":"azsky13"}
Someone was just asking about this on another thread. But after two beers, I don't remember where.
Thanks for the history lesson dear Dr.
btw... how did your Thanksgiving dinner turn out?
{"commentId":4236820,"threadId":"430771","contentId":"2162418","authorDomain":"azsky13"}
- 2 votes
#3 - Sun Nov 30, 2008 12:05 AM EST{"commentId":4236937,"authorDomain":"hippiechick"}
...arsky, wait...we have been following each other around all night and you have yet to offer me a beer. I am offended. LOL
{"commentId":4236937,"threadId":"430771","contentId":"2162418","authorDomain":"hippiechick"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":4237020,"authorDomain":"azsky13"}
So sorry! Where are my manners?
I have a lovely Seasonal *Christmas* beer called "Fireside Nut Brown." Would you like to try one? I can't quite figure out the ingredients, but if I keep drinking I will no longer care!
{"commentId":4237020,"threadId":"430771","contentId":"2162418","authorDomain":"azsky13"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":4237038,"authorDomain":"hippiechick"}
...that sounds lovely...thanks... even we godless heathens enjoy a good Christmas brew. ;)
{"commentId":4237038,"threadId":"430771","contentId":"2162418","authorDomain":"hippiechick"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":4237356,"authorDomain":"Sim2Luv"}
azsky, who makes that beer?
On a cold night, I kind of like a drink a bartender freind made just for me and named after me. It is a CaptainMyMoo. It is spiced rum in hot milk topped with wihpped cream and a bit of freshly grated nutmeg. But egg nog spiked with Wild Turkey 101 instead of rum is nice also! :) hic...ooh, excuse me!
{"commentId":4237356,"threadId":"430771","contentId":"2162418","authorDomain":"Sim2Luv"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":4238894,"authorDomain":"azsky13"}
Sim2Luv,
The beer is made by Leinenkugel, a brewery in Chippewa Falls, WI.
{"commentId":4238894,"threadId":"430771","contentId":"2162418","authorDomain":"azsky13"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":4239071,"authorDomain":"Sim2Luv"}
Thanks azsky.
{"commentId":4239071,"threadId":"430771","contentId":"2162418","authorDomain":"Sim2Luv"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":4236975,"authorDomain":"Sim2Luv"}
I never really liked Christmas because it always seemed there was such a fuss. People were cranky and mean. The adults insisted you talk to "Santa', then wanted to know what you told him ( I never would tell them, 'cause I figured Santa was the only one who really needed to know). After I was about 7 I didn't believe in Santa at all. It never made sense that one girl in class would get the best doll, the best bike, etc and another would get what looked like something out of the Red Cross collection box (which was far from new). Plus, I never (and I mean never got what I asked for). Sure , I like the lights and most of the songs, but I don't like people's attitudes. Therefore I'd just as soon go hibernate until Spring gets here.
BTW, I liked your article Dr Know. You always seem to give the straight shot, no matter what. (less painful that way)
{"commentId":4236975,"threadId":"430771","contentId":"2162418","authorDomain":"Sim2Luv"}
- 2 votes
#4 - Sun Nov 30, 2008 12:30 AM EST{"commentId":4237771,"authorDomain":"dcstone01"}
Thanks Dr. Know. It is nice to know that there are people out there that have studied the same things I have. Also, the Sun/Earth cycle has an impact and old pagan beliefs about the 'October King', spilling his blood for renewal of the earth, with the newborn child taking his place. I know too simplistic an explanation, but it all ties in with the solstice celebrations.
The 'church' used many of the pagans sacred sites for their churches as well. Most cathedrals are built on them or near sacred pools of water. Again, as you said all to get the pagans (and their money & property) into their church.
{"commentId":4237771,"threadId":"430771","contentId":"2162418","authorDomain":"dcstone01"}
- 5 votes
#5 - Sun Nov 30, 2008 4:09 AM EST{"commentId":4250935,"authorDomain":"dcstone01"}
Before I forget, Alec Wisner made an article about
It has numerous YouTube video links (takes just about an hour) that elaborate on the subject. Thought it was a fit with this subject and I linked this article with his.....
{"commentId":4250935,"threadId":"430771","contentId":"2162418","authorDomain":"dcstone01"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":4238660,"authorDomain":"warners"}
I just want to say thanks for doing this. I haven't written anything in a long time but was considering this very thing because of all the self righteous backbiting (regarding the holidays of all things)that has been going on.
So, thanks.
{"commentId":4238660,"threadId":"430771","contentId":"2162418","authorDomain":"warners"}
- 7 votes
#6 - Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:31 AM EST{"commentId":4238714,"authorDomain":"DirkM"}
Nice history, Dr. Know. As you said, very brief. Lots more information on this available for those with an open mind who want to learn about the true origins of Christianity.
It is funny how things seem to come full circle. Nowadays, Christmas is more about the secular commercial purpose of getting people to spend money rather than a true celebration of Christ's birthday.
{"commentId":4238714,"threadId":"430771","contentId":"2162418","authorDomain":"DirkM"}
- 3 votes
#7 - Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:41 AM EST{"commentId":4239044,"authorDomain":"fawnshore"}
rather than a true celebration of Christ's birthday.
..so let's move Christ's birthday back to September and celebrate it then That would free up Dec. 25th for a good old-fashioned Saturnalia!! Woo Hoo!
Biology proves that he could not have been born in December. Ewes stop ovulating at the Fall Equinox (September 22). Gestation is 42 days. This places the date in November at the latest. Most historians believe that the birth occurred in September at the latest. Most favored is about six months after the Jewish Passover.
Jesus is probably pissed that we're celebrating the wrong day anyway.
{"commentId":4239044,"threadId":"430771","contentId":"2162418","authorDomain":"fawnshore"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":4239167,"authorDomain":"warners"}
Jesus is probably pissed that we're celebrating the wrong day anyway.
Jesus is probably pissed we're celebrating at all, since, well....he was such a humble guy.
{"commentId":4239167,"threadId":"430771","contentId":"2162418","authorDomain":"warners"}
- 6 votes
{"commentId":4242457,"authorDomain":"DrKnow"}
{"commentId":4255248,"authorDomain":"azsky13"}
@ Walt ... there are other sources who believe he was born in March. I researched it a bit when the question came up on another thread.
@ Robin... it would have made a great trivia question....
{"commentId":4255248,"threadId":"430771","contentId":"2162418","authorDomain":"azsky13"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":4255424,"authorDomain":"DrKnow"}
{"commentId":4265785,"authorDomain":"MinnieApolis"}
Maybe you are all making a detour by getting too concerned about lambing. What if the reason the shepherds were out was not because of lambing, but because of that extraordinary conjunction in the sky??? You know, the big star that the Wise Guys followed from the East??
{"commentId":4265785,"threadId":"430771","contentId":"2162418","authorDomain":"MinnieApolis"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":4266187,"authorDomain":"Sim2Luv"}
Most churches I have been to in the last 25 years have all agreed that the timing is wrong according to the Bible. In other words, they all agree that Jesus was not born on December 25, but that is when they choose to celebrate His birth. I am of a mind that of you are going to celebrate His birth, it should be every day and although it saddens me that the Father said He had to die for all of us to be forgiven, it is also something to celebrate. We no longer have to sacrifice animals to be forgiven of sins.
{"commentId":4266187,"threadId":"430771","contentId":"2162418","authorDomain":"Sim2Luv"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":4266497,"authorDomain":"DrKnow"}
{"commentId":4268807,"authorDomain":"dd-evans69301"}
Dr Know
If the lambs were not important why are they mentioned?
I may be wrong, but aren't the "lambs" representative of Jesus' "flock"....of the "human followers? as well as "gentleness"... (?)
:D
{"commentId":4268807,"threadId":"430771","contentId":"2162418","authorDomain":"dd-evans69301"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":4272490,"authorDomain":"DrKnow"}
{"commentId":4272874,"authorDomain":"Sim2Luv"}
A spotless lamb was also used as a sacrifice on many religious occasions.
{"commentId":4272874,"threadId":"430771","contentId":"2162418","authorDomain":"Sim2Luv"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":4276895,"authorDomain":"DrKnow"}
{"commentId":4239557,"authorDomain":"j-simmaans"}
This is pretty much exactly what I tell people who wonder why an atheist celebrates Christmas..
Good info, Dr Know
{"commentId":4239557,"threadId":"430771","contentId":"2162418","authorDomain":"j-simmaans"}
- 5 votes
#8 - Sun Nov 30, 2008 11:42 AM EST{"commentId":4245788,"authorDomain":"mam-1"}
If you feel this way, try out the Seventh-Day Adventist Church. If you don't care, that's your business.
{"commentId":4245788,"threadId":"430771","contentId":"2162418","authorDomain":"mam-1"}
#9 - Mon Dec 1, 2008 11:14 AM EST{"commentId":4246576,"authorDomain":"DrKnow"}
{"commentId":4248267,"authorDomain":"danhex"}
Nice piece... I clipped it to my column. Good job...
{"commentId":4248267,"threadId":"430771","contentId":"2162418","authorDomain":"danhex"}
- 2 votes
#10 - Mon Dec 1, 2008 2:51 PM EST{"commentId":4250723,"authorDomain":"ghall1950"}
I enjoyed your article. I'm an anthropology/archaeology buff anyway. But as to Christmas, and when it is celebrated, people (not all, but many) don't believe it as a religious holiday at all. I have always believed that Jesus was born in the Spring, but who consistently questions these things anyway? Christmas as we know it (I'm in my late 50's), stopped being a religious holiday years ago, unfortunately. Back in the day it used to mean family togetherness and homemade gifts (if one gave at all), we were very poor, so there wasn't much shopping involved. Today it is all shopping, even if you have to hurt someone to get what you want. A sad commentary on humanity. Happy Holidays everybody, even if you don't feel that "Jesus is the reason for the season". Be kind and share what you have.
{"commentId":4250723,"threadId":"430771","contentId":"2162418","authorDomain":"ghall1950"}
- 4 votes
#11 - Mon Dec 1, 2008 5:37 PM EST{"commentId":4253109,"authorDomain":"DrKnow"}
{"commentId":4255635,"authorDomain":"ghall1950"}
Too true! The ugliness that occurs every year, starting on "Black Friday" has totally destroyed it for me. I still make some things for family and friends, which are usually appreciated more anyway.
{"commentId":4255635,"threadId":"430771","contentId":"2162418","authorDomain":"ghall1950"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":4254764,"authorDomain":"dd-evans69301"}
Very interesting stuff here. I clipped to my column. Thanks for all the research and lessons.
{"commentId":4254764,"threadId":"430771","contentId":"2162418","authorDomain":"dd-evans69301"}
- 2 votes
#12 - Mon Dec 1, 2008 11:59 PM EST{"commentId":4277662,"authorDomain":"aine"}
Clipped to the Pagan Tea House group. :)
{"commentId":4277662,"threadId":"430771","contentId":"2162418","authorDomain":"aine"}
- 3 votes
#13 - Wed Dec 3, 2008 3:40 PM EST{"commentId":4277889,"authorDomain":"hippiechick"}
There is a Pagan Tea House group??!!
Look out...here I come. :)
{"commentId":4277889,"threadId":"430771","contentId":"2162418","authorDomain":"hippiechick"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":4278929,"authorDomain":"aine"}
Yep. Years ago, I used to be an active member of the original group on IRC, EFNet. I figured that qualified me to start a branch here. *grins*
{"commentId":4278929,"threadId":"430771","contentId":"2162418","authorDomain":"aine"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":4342293,"authorDomain":"mam-1"}
My comment was to anyone who doesn't like Dec. 25th for the birth of Christ. Margaret
{"commentId":4342293,"threadId":"430771","contentId":"2162418","authorDomain":"mam-1"}
#14 - Mon Dec 8, 2008 11:02 AM EST{"commentId":4342949,"authorDomain":"DrKnow"}
{"commentId":4346148,"authorDomain":"jae-walker"}
Wow, Thats a lot of information to take in. I need some time to process this. I have always agreed that it is impossible for us to know the day and have watched a few shows on it. I haven't spent a lot of time pinning a date down though, maybe I should. I have always been kind of accepting to some things. hmmm. I think it would be wonderful if we knew much more than we do now, there is so much missing from the story of Jesus.
{"commentId":4346148,"threadId":"430771","contentId":"2162418","authorDomain":"jae-walker"}
- 2 votes
#15 - Mon Dec 8, 2008 2:45 PM EST{"commentId":4350468,"authorDomain":"Sim2Luv"}
Amen to that...a lot is missing.
{"commentId":4350468,"threadId":"430771","contentId":"2162418","authorDomain":"Sim2Luv"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":4373654,"authorDomain":"warners"}
And yet. there is plenty enough to make the point he was after. I applaud the effort...again.
{"commentId":4373654,"threadId":"430771","contentId":"2162418","authorDomain":"warners"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":4409809,"authorDomain":"Sim2Luv"}
rwarner, I was not talkingabout Dr Know's article. The story of Jesus has a lot of gaps and holes in it. There is a lot that just does not add up. But I think people tend to make too much of the "finer points" and forget the true meaning of Jesus. We should celebrate His teachings and His gift to us everyday. Not just one day a week or one "special" day a year just because the Roman Catholic Church says it is so.
{"commentId":4409809,"threadId":"430771","contentId":"2162418","authorDomain":"Sim2Luv"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":4374915,"authorDomain":"jae-walker"}
Clipped to Of Legends and Treasures group.
{"commentId":4374915,"threadId":"430771","contentId":"2162418","authorDomain":"jae-walker"}
- 1 vote
#16 - Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:22 PM EST{"commentId":4407974,"authorDomain":"mam-1"}
I didn't say join any church. Just that there are people out there who believe differently. If anyone is discontented, they should go looking for what suits them. That's freedom of religon in practice. Call Him God, Jehovah, Allah, The Great Spirit, I do believe we were created, not evolved. - Margaret
{"commentId":4407974,"threadId":"430771","contentId":"2162418","authorDomain":"mam-1"}
#17 - Fri Dec 12, 2008 6:37 PM EST{"commentId":4408559,"authorDomain":"DrKnow"}
{"commentId":4409926,"authorDomain":"jae-walker"}
Clipped to All Things Christmas
{"commentId":4409926,"threadId":"430771","contentId":"2162418","authorDomain":"jae-walker"}
- 1 vote
#18 - Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:57 PM EST{"canLink":false,"threadId":"430771","isPrivate":false}
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